In this episode of Hustle and Pro, we learn about Kip Watson’s sports path from gymnastics to football and her work with athletes and parents as a Sports Psychology Professional & Therapist-Supervisor and a Positive Coaching Alliance trainer and speaker.
Her insight into what makes athletes tick is fascinating and thought-provoking. What are the drivers and what motivates each athlete? How do you identify their strengths and weaknesses to get the best performance from them?
Listen and learn as we chat with Kip Watson.
Show Notes
- [:43] Quick hits with Kip Watson
- [2:54] Kips Story
- [5:13] How’d Kip get into football?
- [6:48] Parenting
- [14:53] Work as a sports therapist
- [21:17] Work with Positive Coaching Alliance
- [28:17] What’s the hardest thing for athletes?
Resources within this episode:
- Anne ‘Kip’ Rodgers Watson: Twitter: @KipFit | Instagram: @KipFit
- Braincode Corp Sports Psychology, Counseling, and Personal Fitness Training: Website
- Positive Coaching Alliance: Website
- Texas Elite Women’s National Football Team Website
Connect with Lifestyle Frisco:
Transcript: (machine-generated)
This is Hustle and Pro with Kelly Walker. Join Kelly as she talks sports with players, coaches, organizers and entrepreneurs from Peewee league to pro. Now here’s your host, Kelly Walker.
Welcome to Hustle and Pro. Thanks for joining us today. You’re going to hear from Kip Rogers Watson. I asked Kip to join us because her story is cool and unique and her role in sports is cool and unique as a sports psychology professional and therapist supervisor and certified high performance coach and a PCA trainer. We’re going to get into all of those things. Thank you for joining us. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. So at the beginning of these, I do some, some quick hit fast favorites about your own sports preferences. So tell me who’s your favorite athlete? Oh my gosh. It depends on which decade. Um, I, you know, I had the honor of watching Michael Jordan play when he was just, you know, at his best, at his peak. So I’d probably have to say as an athlete, Michael Jordan, and as someone who inspired me way back when, Nadia Comaneci. I love her,. You know, way back when.
Yeah, smooth gymnast, tiny little thing. She was. Yes. What about your favorite team? Ohio State Buckeyes. I grew up on Buckeyes and that’s really what got me into sports at the very beginning is my dad dragged me to all kinds of Buckeye events. And you experience at five years old, you experienced the horseshoe with 100,000 fans and it is a spiritual experience and you’re hooked and you’re hooked. Yes. What about your favorite sport to play? Favorite sport to play? Mm, well gosh, the sports I love to play like I’m so old now. That’s okay. It makes it difficult. I mean, I loved being a competitive gymnast and I loved being a competitive tackle football player. And now that I’m not doing either one of those, um, I just enjoy being physical, whether it’s, you know, whatever. I like kickboxing a ton. I do, I do it a lot. So, you know, those are three, well I guess not three different things, but the gymnastics and the tackle football are not what I define as sports, but very similar in, if you have a fear response, which we can get into, they’re both bad. If you struggle with fear, huh? Yes. Cause you can’t hesitate in either one. Okay. I’m ready to get into that in a minute. One last quick thing. What’s your favorite sport to watch? Oh, anything I geek out on anything I can watch anything, especially during Olympics time, like don’t bother me. I’m watching whatever’s on. Don’t talk to me. Don’t interrupt me. I’m watching. I love it.
Okay, let’s explore your story, your personal story. I want to hear more about the professional side of things. But to get to know you a little bit better about that, the first time I met you I heard you talking about playing football and I was intrigued, obviously. Um, so what is your story as far as you being an athlete? Well, when I was three my dad stuck a golf club in my hand cause he played collegiate golf at Texas Tech. And so I, he tried early on to get me into golf. Um, but my brain really was far too scattered to for a mental game, like golf. I mean, I’m decent at it, but I just find it hard to concentrate like that, that sport requires. Um, but my parents were really good. They let me try a variety of things. So when I was young, like I did dance, I did tennis, I did ice skating, uh, swimming, diving, you know, all, all kinds of different things. And um, and then I really landed on gymnastics, which I started late actually as a gymnast. My first competitive season was when I was 11.
Oh, that is pretty late. Yes. Most kiddos start when they’re toddlers and you know, like forward rolls and like keep at it. Right. You got started a little later. That’s interesting. And how, how long were you at gym? Like how competitive? Eight years. Okay. I did it competitively eight years and back then there were known as classes, not levels in got to that class right before elite level. So, and then I hung up my grips when I went to college. What did you do in college? Any sports? Nothing. Any recreational sports though? Or did you just not play for awhile? I didn’t do anything. Okay. Then tell me how you became a football player. Well, I was, you know, I went to college and got my degrees, got my master’s and I, uh, actually worked in radio and television for about eight years and then went back to school. Went to Dallas Seminary, got a master’s degree in counseling, and then worked in, mostly with addictions for about nine years at a facility in more in Dallas city of Dallas. And then it was, I had started my own private practice was raising kids, you know, got married and had kids. And I randomly met one of the players of the female professional team here who most people now know Jen Welter, who is the first female NFL coach. And so I met her randomly and she’s like, come try out. And it was two weeks before a try out. So I just, I went and I’m, I’m 40 years old and I’m thinking, this is insane. They’re going to, it is a little insane. I’m gonna look at my age and go, honey. Thank you. Bye. No, thank you. And, um, but I made it through that. They invited me back to training camp, made it through training camp, made it through. You have to get through hell day and made it through that. And then, um, played three seasons, got a concussion my third season and that kinda shut things down cause I need my brain for what I do. Sure. That’s fascinating. Yeah. And this is full on tackle football. This is not, the lingerie is not, this is the real NFL, same style, same field, same everything. What was your position? I played mostly free safety, a little bit of strong. And then outside weak side linebacker. What? Yeah. Small little thing. That’s why I write. That’s why they, I’m chasing down people half my age at the time. Um, but I really liked playing linebacker. I just wasn’t quite big enough. Yes. But it’s much more fun. I to be in the mix, you know? But yeah. So, but I was mostly safety. That’s so interesting. I love it.
Okay, so you mentioned a while ago having kiddos, and I know that you’ve talked about parenting an athlete, so I know that parenting an athlete is tough. I’m still in kind of the earlier stages of that as my oldest is eighth grade, so I’m not even into the high school, how to parent in high school sports. And I don’t expect to be a college athlete parent or anything like that. But I also know it’s rewarding. So what kind of sports parent are you? And it’s probably changed, you know, phases of life and kids. So tell me about that. Well, I, I’ve had the honor and privilege of coaching both my kids in their youth, they’re now 20 and 18 and they’re both in college and they’re both athletes. Um, so yeah, I’ve kind of walked through those phases. And I had one rule in my house cause I think sports is such a great way to teach kids life lessons. And of course I had no idea at the time when they’re born like, you know, what kind of athlete are they actually going to be? And in fact, my daughter had a birth injury and that was actually sad to say, but this is true. I like confession time here. When she got injured at birth, I thought, Oh my God, how is she going to do sports? But, but she’s overcome right and she’s fine. But we put expectations on our kids with stuff that we had interest in and some, you know, and I, I recognized I had to really hold a balance there. And so I did have the rule that you gotta be in some kind of sport. I don’t care what kind of sport, but you gotta be physical in some way.
My son did baseball, football flag, football, tried basketball and then he loved, um, like the field in track and field events. So he did that. And then he also played golf, so he did kind of a variety. And my daughter was, she did a variety too. She swam in Frisco aquatics for a number of years when she was in grade school. And then when she got into junior high, um, and she tells me she wishes I hadn’t let her quit swimming cause she really loved it. But she was that kind of girl that was more interested in, this is I think important for parents, the friendships and relationships were important for her and she just wasn’t finding that on the swim team. So she did middle school and high school volleyball, basketball track and field. Then she started the swim team over at Legacy Christian Academy. And so she was able to then go back to kinda her first love in doing that. Now they both did flag football in their youth and that’s when I got the chance to coach both of them. And then I coached my sons, um, Frisco football league team for five years in middle school. That’s when I stepped away from coaching. I’m not coaching, I’m just parent. And it’s a totally different role.
And navigating the parent coach thing is also, that is also tricky because I coached the kids that my son was in that position. So I let somebody else coach my son. Right. Yeah. You gotta have a little bit of distance if you can. I mean, yeah, not all. You can’t always do that depending on the team or the sport you’re coaching. So sometimes, right, you know, you are your kid’s coach or your head coach or whatever. And it’s hard for the kid too I think, and it is, you know, sometimes they’d be like, is this mom, are you coach Kip still? And I’m like, coach. And so then they, you know, they, they were, they learned to respond differently and then I’m like, okay, mom. Right. And, and it would change. Um, but yeah, it, when you’re, when you’re on the field or in that coaching position, it was a more, not, they should respect you too as a parent, but it’s a little different. But it was more of the, yes, ma’am. Yes ma’am. Yes ma’am. You know, because we were, especially the Frisco football league team, we were known for being very disciplined, very organized, but we definitely challenged those boys. That’s part of sports too. One of those life lessons.
And you mentioned your daughter saying you, she wished you wouldn’t have let her quit something at a certain time. I think that is such a big conversation as a parent. You know, as a nine and 13 year old, um, my kiddos, that’s sort of an ongoing conversation. And this, those ages where, which sport do you drop for other sports? And which seasons do you allow to overlap and what do you focus on and do you do something all year? And I don’t think you should all these things, but it’s a constant conversation in our household of do you keep doing this or do you move on to something? How long do we do this? And I think it is tough. And we, you know what, whenever she decided, I remember that last year, she was just really miserable, but I told her, you have to finish off the commitment, right? You made a commitment and you’re going to finish the year out and you’re going to do the best she can. Um, and that was hard.
And you know, given what I do with sports psychology, so one thing I do, it’s a simple process, but I assess an athlete’s intangibles. So their mental game, so there is a science to it. So I knew pretty early on like how my kids were wired and so I would both parent and coach towards what I knew were their strengths and weaknesses based on that assessment. And my daughter is much more relational than task oriented. My son’s very task oriented versus relational. And so for my daughter, if she didn’t have that personal connection to teammates and or the coach, it was going to be really hard to create consistency and performance. And she just didn’t have that. She switched from Frisco Aquatics to another team, really struggled there. And then we just decided, because she was developing friendships at school, but school didn’t have a swim team. She’s like, well, let me just, you know, go try these other things. And she did. So. So you’re saying her motivator to to be better at swim was the relationships and if those weren’t there, she wasn’t just going to choose to perform better. Right. That was kind of how she was wired. Okay. And especially early on I knew that was going to be important. And where was I trying to train to help her turn on that competitive side of her, cause she’s there at meets and just having fun and engaging with their friends and I’m like, oh yes, time to compete. But you didn’t sense that dire urgency to beat the person next to you. She just wants to be friends with them. And that’s where you go, well that’s okay. Right? That’s what she wants. That’s great. Okay. At that age.
But you can get, if you’re competitive, you can, you can look at her and go, why aren’t you, where’s the fire? And I, I reacted that way early on like, what the heck? You just look like you’re jumping in there and like having fun. And she’s like, well, that’s what I’m doing, you know, and I’m like, okay, but you got to, you got to beat ’em! And she’s like, what? You know, and, but you know, she’s seven, eight years old, you know. And so I learned early, early, right? Yes. Her primary motivators are very different than like mine or my son and this isn’t me living my life through her. Right. That is a hard realization a lot of us have to come to, our kids are not our own selves, you know, sports careers. This is their own life, own individual and they’re wired differently. Yes. She’s wired differently than I am now. As she got older, um, and she became more self aware, she realized that that was while both an asset in terms of a team environment to be the encourager, the one that genuinely cares and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. It kinda hindered her as far as competitive fire. So she, as she got older, she learned to turn that on.
You talked about that one example just now of knowing how your kids are wired. I don’t know what a sports therapist does at all. So please fill me in so that I can kind of learn. I mean, I don’t know who you’re talking to, who you’re working with. Are you working with, what age kids are the parents coming to you? So who do you actually all have and what are you doing to help them? Okay. That was a multilayered question. It is. So my clients are anywhere from like I have 9 and 10 year old gymnasts, you know, cause that, that season is certainly you’re a lot younger, all the way up to I’ve worked with NFL players, NFL alumni, major league baseball players, you know, there’s, so there’s a wide variety. Probably my sweet spot is more that high school who’s transitioning into college and then the early college athlete. Um, so that’s probably where a majority of my clients are, here and across the country. Now what I do may be totally different than what another sports psychology person does. Yeah. Probably it’s not an all encompassing cookie cutter. Obviously. I guess a differential that I realized about what I do is I do do this mental assessment process first, which involves an intake form first time we sit down you know. I’ve learned about the goals and objectives, how far you want to take your career. I learned about what some of the challenges are and then I have an online assessment that they take and the results session are usually, it’s just very eyeopening and confirming for both the athlete and parent often time joins and I make it fun and interactive, but you get a clear roadmap of what your strengths and weaknesses are physically and mentally given your sport of choice and sometimes your position within a sport. Okay.
So for example, in football, like the mental wiring and job requirement of somebody on the old line is very different than the mental wiring and requirement of say a linebacker. It’s different. And so it just helps to know how you’re mentally wired. And then, man, what are my assets here with that that I want to build upon? And then is there anything we need to develop? Um, and a lot of times in field sports, some of those things can be as simple as we gotta we gotta develop your read, react and respond, which is a key element in field sports. But that’s a mental intangible gift. It’s not a physical gift. The respond part. Yeah. Reading what’s going on. Oh, the whole thing. Read, react, respond, right? That’s a mental asset. Either you have it or you don’t. Now you can develop it, but it really helps to go through an assessment process to understand kind of where you’re at with that.
So after you’ve assessed them, you know their strengths, weaknesses and as it pertains to their position and those kinds of things, you know, their goals. What’s next. Do you meet with people on a regular basis and you’re working through those goals and objectives? Yes. So at the results session also give the athlete in the parent, um, what I call recommendation plan or improvement plan. And it involves things that I work on with the athletes, so some curriculum based on what I call their brain code. So curriculum, I’ll take them through the mental training that I take them through, tools they can use. And then also if they’re essentially if they’re high school or younger, then I usually have a bucket of recommendations for the parents because the parent, you know, we have a key role on the success team of our athlete. The athlete has a role in their success team and they both got to know how to execute their roles. And then oftentimes that requires how do we interact with the coach or trainer or agent or you know, what have you. You know there’s, there’s a, there’s a team there that creates the athlete. We just have different roles. You mentioned brain code. Is that the name of your company? Okay. Yeah. Brain Code. Yeah. Neuro Sport is the sports side of it. And then Brain Code is the executive coaching side. But it’s in essence the same process of assessment.
And so when the parents come to you, how do they know to, I mean I’ve never, my kids aren’t old enough yet. I mean I guess, but I never would’ve thought to, to go that route. I mean is it a need that they just realize their kid needs to get to the next level and get help defining what that looks like? How do they know when they need to come talk to you? That’s a great question. And I think it varies by individual and I think it then varies based on kind of what your goals are or what, you know, the athlete’s goal is. The number one reason people call my office is that there is a confidence issue. It’s the number one reason. And when I’ve done my surveys and evaluations, like confidence is always the number one issue. And that’s related to what we often see a lot. Anxiety, depression, right? Performance anxiety. It can show up in test taking, but it can show up like I’m great in practice and then I just can’t perform in the game. Why? Why is there a disparity? Right? So that’s a calming, okay question. So that makes the confidence and anxiety part makes a lot of sense to me because beforehand I thought, well, are you just trying to help kids get to a college level or pro level. Like, that wouldn’t be me, but I could see the other pieces in my own kids when, it’s like there’s something missing, the confidence or the fear. You mentioned fear at the top about that and how all that comes into play. Maybe they’ve had an injury or something like that. That’s also true. That can create a lot of issues, especially if it’s a severe injury and I want to come back and keep playing. And I think the beauty of what I get to do is I get to teach life lessons that transfer into the classroom, into the home, into whatever you end up doing ultimately, I get to teach those life lessons using sports to do it. It’s really all the same type of life skills that we all need to have. I just get to use that vehicle to do it.
Sure. And that’s a good segue into the other things I mentioned that you do. So people might not realize I completely stole your Positive Coaching Alliance talking points when you came to my middle school parent meeting at the kickoff of the year and I totally stole it and talked about it on an episode. That was a great episode. But I just thought it was interesting and reminded me, even though I, I think I’m doing pretty good, but it reminded me I can do better in that role and how I can help my kid enjoy their sports career. Not win more, that shouldn’t matter, but its enjoy their sports life more. So I stole that from you so thank you. You’re welcome. But I also took away some good reminders of just about our, you know, our roles with young athletes. And so, um, so tell me how, what do you do with Positive Coaching Alliance and also being a certified high performance coach? What are you doing there?
Well, Positive Coaching Alliance is a nonprofit organization that really works with youth sports in schools and in you know, select type sports and those types of organizations. And what we do is we work with what I call the quadrant of, I call it high performance but PCA calls it the development zone. So we work with staff and leaders, coaches, parents and athletes, teaching them kind of what I just said. You each have a unique role on that team, on that team, on the success team of your athlete. And so they’re using the best in sports psychology principles and tools and working with those organizations similar to what I do. It’s not quite as I guess in depth or precise as I would do when I’m doing one on one type stuff. But a lot of it is similar life skills type training from those perspective roles as we develop. And their tagline is, you know, better athletes, better people. And so that’s what I do. I’m one of their trainers, so I do a lot of the local training here for different junior high and high school -well junior high is middle school now and I keep saying that – high school, middle school, elementary schools and some private schools in this area.
And then I’ve done some of their national accounts like for USA gymnastics and USA dance and cheer and things like that. So you’re working with all of those involved, like you said, the parents, you’re talking to the parents, you’re working more in a workshop situation with like the coaching staff or at the schools. Correct. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And you, you were sitting in on a parent, it was a, I think it was a 30 minute one, so it was one of our shorter ones versus the hour long. But yeah. Yeah, it was pretty concise, short and to the point we just sort of went over the basics. But one of the things I loved about it and it makes sense now with your practice, is asking a parent, what’s your goal for your kid as an athlete? And then asking the kid, what’s your goal as an athlete? There was a kid sitting right in front of you and their answers, I mean, are they ever the same? Usually not, but you’ve never, most parents don’t take the time to have that kind of conversation. Right. They just don’t. You don’t think of it. You just kind of, I mean, in my family situation, you play sports, you’re little and you just keep going. And keep going. I don’t know. We talk about different things and teams and positions and happiness and you know, I don’t know when you want to quit. We talked about that a minute ago, but very rarely do you say, okay, you know, let’s stop for a minute and think about where this is going. You might say that when it’s time to figure out if you’re about to go commit to a college or something, but most of us don’t get that far.
Well, right. And I think it’s why I highly encourage parents at least once a year, sit down with your child and talk about their goals. That was something I did with each one of my kids. I took them out of school for a day and we called it our special day. But the first thing we did is I took him somewhere for breakfast and we looked at our goals, we looked at what you did last year from what you said you wanted to accomplish, and then we’re going to look, you know what? Okay, so what’s on tap for this next year? And making sure that we’re of that I’m hearing and listening to them and what they want to do and what they are setting out to accomplish. Then I know better how to guide and help them. Cause it’s not really my goal for them. And that’s what I was, is that, so you’re just listening. You’re not shaping the goal for that. You’re not saying, well I think you could do this. You’re just listening to them so that you can help support them. And even if they ask, you know, what do you think mom? You know, I’m still gonna put it back on them because it needs to be what they want. Right? Actually, I mean, of course parents put their expectations on kids a lot. They do. I’m a firm believer if your kid is, if your athlete is not in it for the right reasons for themselves to enjoy a sport or for whatever they’re trying to achieve, I really don’t think they’re long-term, they’re not going to be good at it. Well, not only that, but this is, I’ve seen this over and over sadly, is I see the parent driving the child for the college scholarship. And the child, actually gifted, the athlete very gifted at this sport – I’ve probably seen this, you know, 10 times over the 20 years I’ve done this – that child is gonna rebel and they usually do at some point because they don’t want to do it. They’re burned out. They hate it. It’s about dad’s goal for me or mom’s goal for me instead of, you know, what I really value. And even though they’re sort of a natural talent or gifted or do very well with it, like I’ve seen, I’ve seen, this has happened twice, where they’ve turned down full ride scholarships because they’re so tired over it of the parent. Right. I’ve seen where the parent is the one. That hurts. Right. It’s hard to watch. But the kid’s crumbling, right. And they’re so tired and worn out and exhausted. I’ve seen it where the parent takes over speaking to college recruiters as if they’re the kid. And that always goes South quickly too because college recruiters and coaches are not recruiting you, the parent, they’re recruiting your kid. Oh, for sure they’ve got it. They’ve got to know we’re done recruiting the parents. Right. We’re done. That’s going to be an over-involved parent.
So we’re here in Frisco and the Sports City USA and we have it all and we have fantastic facilities and pro teams galore. And you know, it’s pretty fantastic from lots of angles. But from your position as a therapist, what’s the hardest part for young athletes in this town right now? I mean, is it this competence you say? Is it anxiety? Are they, are they isolating themselves? Is there too much pressure? Like what are we doing wrong? I think the anxiety and the lack of confidence or really just symptoms of two things that are typically wrong. One, they don’t know what their identity is. They think their identity is in what they do or the role they have or the achievement that they get, whether in the classroom, the GPA or the trophy or the ring or the title or winning. And they don’t really know who they are. Their identity has turned into what I call a lie-dentity, which is based on role and achievement and that’s super common. It’s just super common. That probably has some of the fear if I quit this sport or if I don’t achieve, if I don’t perform, who knew what happens? Is anybody gonna care about me? Yeah. Then who am I? I think it’s important resource that you’re there to talk to the kiddos about all of these things. I think it’s fascinating. I could probably talk to you for a lot longer than this one podcast episode. Yeah,a lot of tangents we could go down. Sure. We could do another tangent on another day because I just think it’s fascinating and probably because, growing up as an athlete and then having these two little ones that are completely different athletes, I have a boy and a girl similar to like you were talking about they compete differently and they want different things about, of their sports I think. I need to do a check in with them about their goals like you did because I think that’s a really important way to communicate with your kid, to take a pause. We get so busy with the hustle of everyday sports life and school life and just normal life.
Real quickly back to your question. So I said there were two things that I think are issues. So I mentioned identity is the first one.The second one I think is just, we have a real misunderstanding, I think of the role of feelings in our life. And a lot of times we think of confidence as a feeling. We think of motivation as a feeling. We think of courage as a feeling and they’re not. And so helping kids understand their feelings and you know, in the therapy world we call it emotional intelligence, but understanding what they’re feeling and how they actually have the ability to choose what they feel becomes really a game changer. I have, I’ve seen not just with kids, but with the adults that I work with too. So what do you mean by that though? What feelings are they supposed, if confidence is not, then what is?
It’s a belief. Confidence is a belief you have and the classic definition to get the job done. Well, the belief is not based on feeling, you either believe it or you don’t. Got it. So early, like about the early seventies there was a big movement on self-esteem, which did a tremendous amount of damage to a lot of people. So with our kids yes as parents, we do have a strong influence on their belief system and we do affect what they believe about themselves. They get to be about 14, 15, 16, it’s now a decision they make, a belief that they decide. You can’t build it. You can’t develop it, you can’t give them self esteem or self confidence. They have to choose it. And so helping them understand that has been a huge game changer for people. But what are the feelings that they, are we talking feelings like this makes me happy and sad. Well, even right there, I wouldn’t let you say that in my office. Okay. I wouldn’t let you say makes me. Okay, I feel happy when I play or I do this? You decide, you choose your feeling. Don’t hand that power on to somebody or something else. Take it back. Right. Take it back. Okay. Does that make sense? A little bit. I mean, the way I said it, yeah. This makes me, it’s like no, it’s not making you. Right. I don’t have the, if I had the ability to make you angry in that moment, then I could go, be happy. Right. Why aren’t you happy? I snapped my fingers. Right. And so it’s a powerful lesson for every human being to understand, ah, I get it. Ownership of those feelings and that you can, right. If I’m sad, I need to take a look at it and figure out what it’s about. But now I get to choose. I love that. What to generate.
Awesome. So, one last thing as we’re sitting here, I can’t help but notice what is that ring on your finger? Oh, this is my Superbowl ring from when I played for Dallas in 2008. It’s big. Thank you. And lots of sparkly and diamonds. Well, you know, it’s just a good reminder of blood, sweat and tears, right in my family of women where we went through that together. And you should know like your Dallas team, I believe is now we’re going to play our home games in Frisco. Oh really? At The Star? Or is this indoor? I think on Memorial Field next season. Outdoor. Yeah and we just went three-peat. So we have championships in 17, 18, 19. So what’s that season? Dallas Elite. So we start playing in the spring. Okay. So we begin training camp here right after the new year. Well, thanks for your time. I enjoyed having you and hope we could talk again soon on the other topics that we touched on today. So everyone else, thank you for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe to Hustle and Pro on any way that you listen to podcasts. We’re on Google Play and iTunes and Spotify. You can even find our episodes on YouTube now. Thanks for listening.
9th Annual North Texas Turkey Trot in Frisco