FISD choosing sides in the city and school board election

TPW

Diamond Member
#41
Did you know ?Some of the research you are citing is almost 20 years old ? Go find some research that was from this century or this decade. Education has changed a lot since 1990. Most of the students in our schools were not even born when this research was done.
You have taken all of the credibility our of your argument by throwing out info this old.
Really? Two of the items are from 1988 and that means they aren't valid? So does that mean that the basics of math are invalid becuase they are old? How about you find me some research that disputes the above.
 

TPW

Diamond Member
#42
Of course not - you're for the ACC so you have no issue of him using ISD resources and during ISD hours to push for their and your agenda as well as taking advantage of parent email lists which are you be used strictly for "ISD related" mailings only - not political campaigns. You complain about the federal government using taxpayers money to promote their agenda all the time. So what is it? Can obama now start hiring taxpayer paid employees to start pushing is reelection because you decided hes a nice guy and cares about the citizen? And yes I know Dr Trent as well from having two kids in band. He is a great guy and he does care about the kids - but this lacks integrity and abuse of taxpayer funds and trust and you know it. It doesn't matter how small an issue it appears to you.
And I said in my initial post that it wasn't the smartest thing to do. However the level of faux outrage by many here is laughable. I tell you what I'll pick up the tab for the cost of whatever taxpayer funds were used for him to send the email. What is that .10 maybe .50. Feel better now?
 

GoodAg

Double Platinum
#43
1. They are pretty far away and I'm sure people like you would complain about the cost of buses to take students to these facilities.
$16,000,000 could buy a whole lot of bus rides, don't you think? ;)

Look, I get what you're saying, really I do. I was fortunate enough to be in choir, sat first chair flute, played basketball, and ran track among other things. Believe it or not, 20+ years ago, Plano was quite a bit farther away with the lack of infrastructure, and when we had to take buses from east Dallas to PESH (or Fort Worth or Duncanville or Mesquite), it was quite the trek. But we did it. Many, MANY schools and teams still do it today.

The 30 minute trip it would take to get to the Eisemann Center in Richardson from Frisco is no worse than what many of us had "back in the day." IMO, there's just no really good reason to throw good money after bad with this.
 

TPW

Diamond Member
#44
And as I said there are many reasons to support he ACC that have nothing to do with education. You don't support it. I get it. I do. We disagree yet the world still turns.
 
#45
The fact is if we are going to spend $16 million and don't kid yourself that the money isn't going to get spent. I'd prefer to see it spent on the ACC. You don't have to agree but that is how I feel and how I voted.
Uhm no, we won't. If the prop passes, then bonds are REVOKED and WON'T GET SOLD. It's not like we'll have millions of extra cash laying around. We won't have the additional DEBT BURDEN and we won't be on the hook for hundreds of thousands of dollars in M&O costs from here to eternity.
 
#46
And I said in my initial post that it wasn't the smartest thing to do. However the level of faux outrage by many here is laughable. I tell you what I'll pick up the tab for the cost of whatever taxpayer funds were used for him to send the email. What is that .10 maybe .50. Feel better now?
It's not about the COST, it's about abusing the mailing list of parents that belongs to FISD to push his personal agenda. It's okay for him to push the ACC....then I suppose it'll be okay for Teacher X to send an email out to parents to vote to re-elect Obama or for Teacher Y to send an email asking parents to vote for Candidate X. Same thing, a teacher, administer or board members should not send out an email to the schools database pushing their personal agenda.

Earlier was a post about the BOARD encouraging PTA Presidents to send letters to congress regarding school financing issues. That is so different. The PTA and school board have a common goal - our kids' education -- and Frisco ISD funding. The ACC has ZERO to do with FISD and school funding.
 
#47
$16,000,000 could buy a whole lot of bus rides, don't you think? ;)
....
The 30 minute trip it would take to get to the Eisemann Center in Richardson from Frisco is no worse than what many of us had "back in the day." IMO, there's just no really good reason to throw good money after bad with this.
Plus, buses will still be used to cart the kids to Allen. Just a few dollars saved on gas. Same # of buses, same # of drivers. Maybe an hour less TOTAL in drive time for the drivers, as they are paid from the minute they leave the barn (if not earlier) until they get back, not just the drive time.
 

Nelson

Diamond Member
#48
Ecourage your student's parents to vote Saturday.

It is an important election.

There is a movement of voters that do not think money spent on the arts is a good use of tax payers money. I disagree! Frisco has state of the art athletic facilities and needs to have equal venues for our artistic students, parents and community residents.

I think the Arts of Collin County Fine Arts Complex will be a wonderful venture for the communities in the area. A vote against proposition one - will allow the building of the complex to go forward. People interested in the Arts need to make their voices heard. Get out the Vote!!

Maher Masso, Bart Crowder, John Classe and Debbie Gelespie are all candidates that support the arts and do not think spending money on the arts is any kind of waste.

Vote your concience, but vote Saturday.

Dr. Trent
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Trent, Daryl <TrentD@friscoisd.org> wrote:
This is a very important election week. Do not forget to go vote.

Dr. Daryl Trent
Director of Fine Arts
Frisco Independent School District
12025 Rolater Road
Frisco, Texas 75034
trentd@friscoisd.org
I don't know Dr. Trent at all. He might be a wonderful person, I have no reason to think otherwise. If this email was sent out from the Frisco ISD email system, and considering the signature email address, it probably was intended to use that system, he has clearly misused government property. This certainly calls for some type of disciplinary action, even if it is only a letter in his personnel file, and comments on his next employee evaluation.

I worked in government for 34 years. From the point that we became computerized, it was made empirically clear to all of us that the computers and all of the associated systems, including email, were not to be used for personal use in any way. They even required us to sign documents attesting to the fact that we have read and understood these rules, and failure to follow them could result in discipline up to and including dismissal from our jobs, and that there was even the possibilty of prosecution in the most egregious cases.
 

Piiilot

Platinum Member
#49
Really? Two of the items are from 1988 and that means they aren't valid? So does that mean that the basics of math are invalid becuase they are old? How about you find me some research that disputes the above.
The basics of math are not invalid, however you will agree the principles of teaching have changed significantly in the last 30 years - and besides that you quoted a Liberal Democrat from New Mexico - you lost all credibility when you did that !
 

TPW

Diamond Member
#50
I don't disagree that showing advocacy for the ACC in his position as the Fine Arts Director for FISD in the manner he did was wrong. I just don't think there was any malicious intent behind it. It was done out of a genuine feeling that it is the right decision for the students of the district for which he oversees. I'm sure he will be disciplined for it in some manner as he should.
 

TPW

Diamond Member
#51
The basics of math are not invalid, however you will agree the principles of teaching have changed significantly in the last 30 years - and besides that you quoted a Liberal Democrat from New Mexico - you lost all credibility when you did that !
Ok, remove the quote from the liberal democrat from NM. Now let's have a debate on the other items listed which contain cited references. You claim that they are invalid, the ball is in your court to support that claim.

This probably deserves it's own thread by the way....
 

Sticky Davis

Double Platinum
#52
The Frisco Enterprise reports (Dr.Reedy confirms) in this morning's newspaper that the e-mail came from Dr. Trent's personal Gmail address on his personal computer to his fellow teachers.

(I can't find a link to the article.)

"Dr. Trent can use his own computer on his own time however he sees fit. Our employees should not use school computers for political causes" per Reedy.

The music teacher who then forwarded it on using her FISD email address and school computer "made a mistake" "a violatation of district policy" and "has been asked to apologize for her actions" per Reedy. "The district regrets that this action occurred."
 

TPW

Diamond Member
#53
The Frisco Enterprise reports (Dr.Reedy confirms) in this morning's newspaper that the e-mail came from Dr. Trent's personal Gmail address on his personal computer to his fellow teachers.

(I can't find a link to the article.)

"Dr. Trent can use his own computer on his own time however he sees fit. Our employees should not use school computers for political causes" per Reedy.

The music teacher who then forwarded it on using her FISD email address and school computer "made a mistake" "a violatation of district policy" and "has been asked to apologize for her actions" per Reedy. "The district regrets that this action occurred."
BREAKING NEWS Frisco, TX - In a shocking and unbelievable turn of events posters on FOL have yet again been caught making assumptions based on little evidence that have been shown later to be incorrect.
 
#54
I would like to back up a second because there's something I'm not understanding.

This is the first time I've seen education (for the CHILDRENS!!!!!!) used as a major argument for the arts hall. I'm sure it's been mentioned or listed before but why is it all of a sudden the major factor?

I was led to believe - you know from the original campaign information and from the proponents - this arts hall was to promote arts in general and would be a local venue to somehow show companies considering moving to this area we had resources they were looking for so their thousands of local employees would be happy happy happy.

I also remember a previous discussion saying the hall would be cost prohibitive for a local school to actually use for things like student concerts and plays.

So the issue then becomes the arts coming to a convenient location so students can more easily access them? Someone is willing to throw down millions for that? When there are several very nice venues within 25 miles? Come on.

How about this: if you are a parent and your kid is interested in arts then YOU can take responsibility to make sure your kid has opportunities to participate. That includes - you know - sometimes driving your kid to the Myerson or maybe even (gasp!) Bass Hall waaaaaaay over in Ft. Worth.
 
#55
He used his personal computer to send emails to his fellow teachers to their FISD addresses? Then the teacher forwarded it to parents using an FISD list?

Had he sent to fellow teachers at their PERSONAL ADDRESSES, then it's an entirely different story and he did NOTHING wrong.

When I worked in corporate world, sending personal mail (political, jokes, etc.) to company email addresses, even if the email ORIGINATED from your personal account was a HUGE no-no.
 

Rebel

Diamond Member
#56
BREAKING NEWS Frisco, TX - In a shocking and unbelievable turn of events posters on FOL have yet again been caught making assumptions based on little evidence that have been shown later to be incorrect.
I've got a copy of the email, and it does not appear to have originated from a personal email account, since it has his ISD email address in it as part of a header line (ie the "from" line).

That said it does appear the email may have been edited somewhat prior to the teacher sending it out, so I will concede that there is a possibility that the email isn't in its orginal formated order.
 

TPW

Diamond Member
#57
I would like to back up a second because there's something I'm not understanding.

This is the first time I've seen education (for the CHILDRENS!!!!!!) used as a major argument for the arts hall. I'm sure it's been mentioned or listed before but why is it all of a sudden the major factor?

I was led to believe - you know from the original campaign information and from the proponents - this arts hall was to promote arts in general and would be a local venue to somehow show companies considering moving to this area we had resources they were looking for so their thousands of local employees would be happy happy happy.

I also remember a previous discussion saying the hall would be cost prohibitive for a local school to actually use for things like student concerts and plays.

So the issue then becomes the arts coming to a convenient location so students can more easily access them? Someone is willing to throw down millions for that? When there are several very nice venues within 25 miles? Come on.

How about this: if you are a parent and your kid is interested in arts then YOU can take responsibility to make sure your kid has opportunities to participate. That includes - you know - sometimes driving your kid to the Myerson or maybe even (gasp!) Bass Hall waaaaaaay over in Ft. Worth.
I don't ever think that the educational benefits of the arts hall was a major selling point to the masses. More of an added benefit. I think opponents of the ACC attacked the added benefit because it was 1.) one of the lesser benefits of the ACC and was easier to attack and, 2.) I think it was gaining traction with some people.
 

TPW

Diamond Member
#58
I've got a copy of the email, and it does not appear to have originated from a personal email account, since it has his ISD email address in it as part of a header line (ie the "from" line).

That said it does appear the email may have been edited somewhat prior to the teacher sending it out, so I will concede that there is a possibility that the email isn't in its orginal formated order.
So you made assumptions based on incomplete information.
 
#59
I would like to back up a second because there's something I'm not understanding.

This is the first time I've seen education (for the CHILDRENS!!!!!!) used as a major argument for the arts hall. I'm sure it's been mentioned or listed before but why is it all of a sudden the major factor?

I was led to believe - you know from the original campaign information and from the proponents - this arts hall was to promote arts in general and would be a local venue to somehow show companies considering moving to this area we had resources they were looking for so their thousands of local employees would be happy happy happy.

I also remember a previous discussion saying the hall would be cost prohibitive for a local school to actually use for things like student concerts and plays.

So the issue then becomes the arts coming to a convenient location so students can more easily access them? Someone is willing to throw down millions for that? When there are several very nice venues within 25 miles? Come on.

How about this: if you are a parent and your kid is interested in arts then YOU can take responsibility to make sure your kid has opportunities to participate. That includes - you know - sometimes driving your kid to the Myerson or maybe even (gasp!) Bass Hall waaaaaaay over in Ft. Worth.
Oh the pro-ACC crowd has (or had) a presentation on their Facebook page. It is most certainly being touted as FOR THE CHILDREN and WE MUST HAVE IT FOR THE CHILDREN. Did you know -- according to the ACC pro presentation -- it will result in higher SAT scores!

They sort of gloss over the fact that schools will have to PAY TO USE IT and it will probably be TOO EXPENSIVE for the schools to even use it, especially given this era of not enough $$$ to go around. But the uber-talented Frisco children MUST have a world-class venue in which to perform. It just wouldn't be right for them to perform in a simple auditorium (although most are brand spanking new and very very nice - except FHS which was built in an era where frugality ruled over biggest, best, over the top). Plus -- the cost of the the bus ride to Richardson or down the Tollway to Dallas is just too much!
 

Rebel

Diamond Member
#60
So you made assumptions based on incomplete information.
Nope. I have the complete email that was sent out. It has his ISD email address in it along with all of the parents email addresses and the teacher's ISD email. It does not, however contain a personal email address from him. But the header with the "from" in it, is in an unusual place in the text of the email.

Even if it was sent from his personal email, the fact that it was sent to teacher's isd addresses, and asked to be forwarded to parents its problematic.