Bon pour vous, France! France legalizes gay marriage.

#1
The French parliament extended marriage and adoption rights to same-sex couples by a 331 to 225 vote. They are the 14th nation to do so. C'est très bien. Some among the losing side have threatened to respond with violence. But let's hope that those threats by the anti-equality side turn out to be nothing more than angry rhetoric. Because nothing says "Christian love" like beating up on gay people..... sheesh.
 

lucas mccain

Triple Platinum
#2
The French parliament extended marriage and adoption rights to same-sex couples by a 331 to 225 vote. They are the 14th nation to do so. C'est très bien. Some among the losing side have threatened to respond with violence. But let's hope that those threats by the anti-equality side turn out to be nothing more than angry rhetoric. Because nothing says "Christian love" like beating up on gay people..... sheesh.
So in your mind all "Christians" beat up on homosexuals?

How about the majority who don't?
If the majority of non violent Christians truly believe in hell and unrepenting sin as the pathway to hell, it would be anything but love to pretend homosexual behavior is acceptable.

It will most likely be set as law in the US sooner rather than later, but it will never be accepted and excused.
 

Piiilot

Platinum Member
#3
It will most likely be set as law in the US sooner rather than later, but it will never be accepted and excused.
Pretty broad statement there big boy. I think there is a significant number of Americans that have accepted it - and do not believe anyone needs to make any excuses for the way other people choose to live their own lives. I believe it is pretty commonly accepted that people are allowed to live their life in the manner that they choose, and people will have enough respect for their right to do so to not cast judgement or attempt to interfere.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
#4
So in your mind all "Christians" beat up on homosexuals?

How about the majority who don't?
If the majority of non violent Christians truly believe in hell and unrepenting sin as the pathway to hell, it would be anything but love to pretend homosexual behavior is acceptable.

It will most likely be set as law in the US sooner rather than later, but it will never be accepted and excused.
I never said all Christians....

But have you been reading the news about the situation over there? There has already been violence and threats of escalation of violence. Protesting is fine; violence is not (and hardly is an effective witness for Christianity).

In the meantime, it's been a good week for gay marriage : France, Rhode Island with good news on the horizon for Delaware, Illinois, Minnesota, and Oregon.
 
#5
...and people will have enough respect for their right to do so to not cast judgement or attempt to interfere.
Don't expect that sentiment anytime soon from him. Lucas's incessant judgement of people doesn't at all define the people he judges, rather, it defines the person he is.
 

lucas mccain

Triple Platinum
#6
Pretty broad statement there big boy. I think there is a significant number of Americans that have accepted it - and do not believe anyone needs to make any excuses for the way other people choose to live their own lives. I believe it is pretty commonly accepted that people are allowed to live their life in the manner that they choose, and people will have enough respect for their right to do so to not cast judgement or attempt to interfere.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Never will be accepted and excused by followers of Christ.
I thought that was self evident big boy.

That's rich, those same attempts to interfere seems a bit one sided depending on what side you stand on don't you think?


I never said all Christians....

But have you been reading the news about the situation over there? There has already been violence and threats of escalation of violence. Protesting is fine; violence is not (and hardly is an effective witness for Christianity).

In the meantime, it's been a good week for gay marriage : France, Rhode Island with good news on the horizon for Delaware, Illinois, Minnesota, and Oregon.
You didn't say some Christians either now did you?

Please explain how you came to believe it is "Christians" doing the violence? I suppose you believe Westboro Baptists are "Christians" also simply because they say so? At this point I'm fairly convinced you are looking to place blame on Christians without really knowing what they believe. Just like your view on hell... it seems you compromise truth in order to justify a lack of personal discretion.

I'm pretty sure true Christians aren't being violent. It simply goes against what Christ teaches.

If you are homosexual don't ever go to Jamaica and announce it. Now there is a place I've heard true talk about violence towards homosexuals - both from children and adults. That isn't exactly a Christian nation either. Sadly, hatred towards homosexuals extends much further than religious beliefs or motives.

I'm also convinced there are many people both believers and non-believers who appear to "accept" it in the states or are quietly refraining from opposition. But we'll see what happens when the perverted reality hits everyone in the face through all types of media and personal encounters. There will always be those who will not appreciate being bullied into being "PC" while having sodomy being thrown in their face.
 

lucas mccain

Triple Platinum
#7
Don't expect that sentiment anytime soon from him. Lucas's incessant judgement of people doesn't at all define the people he judges, rather, it defines the person he is.
Judgment in what way?

Do I believe homosexual acts are perverted and disgusting? Sure, but that is not a judgment on the individual - only their willful action.
 

Piiilot

Platinum Member
#8
Judgment in what way?

Do I believe homosexual acts are perverted and disgusting? Sure, but that is not a judgment on the individual - only their willful action.
" We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and pursuit of Happiness."

Lucas, this is from The Constitution. I would encourage you to put your Bible down and read it. This document allows you the right to be a narrow minded bigot, it also allows a gay person to live their life in the manner they choose. If you choose to take advantage of your freedoms, why can't you allow them the same privilege ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 

lucas mccain

Triple Platinum
#9
" We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and pursuit of Happiness."

Lucas, this is from The Constitution. I would encourage you to put your Bible down and read it. This document allows you the right to be a narrow minded bigot, it also allows a gay person to live their life in the manner they choose. If you choose to take advantage of your freedoms, why can't you allow them the same privilege ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
A narrow minded bigot? My my, my... whose judging now?

Be honest for once... you mean to tell me there is nothing under the sun that you voice your disgust towards? Do you look yourself in the mirror and give the ol' Constitution speech to yourself? How much of your own statement applies to you? Or is the only exception the homosexual agenda?
 

Piiilot

Platinum Member
#10
A narrow minded bigot? My my, my... whose judging now?

Be honest for once... you mean to tell me there is nothing under the sun that you voice your disgust towards? Do you look yourself in the mirror and give the ol' Constitution speech to yourself? How much of your own statement applies to you? Or is the only exception the homosexual agenda?
I took an oath to uphold and defend the constitution, so I don't have to give myself a speech. Yes, people that do not allow for equal treatment under the Constitution disgust me.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 

lucas mccain

Triple Platinum
#11
I took an oath to uphold and defend the constitution, so I don't have to give myself a speech. Yes, people that do not allow for equal treatment under the Constitution disgust me.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
How do you suppose I am "not allowing equal treatment under the Constitution"?

Give me specific examples, otherwise you are spouting sheer nonsense.
 
#12
Never will be accepted and excused by followers of Christ.
I thought that was self evident big boy.

That's rich, those same attempts to interfere seems a bit one sided depending on what side you stand on don't you think?




You didn't say some Christians either now did you?

Please explain how you came to believe it is "Christians" doing the violence? I suppose you believe Westboro Baptists are "Christians" also simply because they say so? At this point I'm fairly convinced you are looking to place blame on Christians without really knowing what they believe. Just like your view on hell... it seems you compromise truth in order to justify a lack of personal discretion.

I'm pretty sure true Christians aren't being violent. It simply goes against what Christ teaches.

If you are homosexual don't ever go to Jamaica and announce it. Now there is a place I've heard true talk about violence towards homosexuals - both from children and adults. That isn't exactly a Christian nation either. Sadly, hatred towards homosexuals extends much further than religious beliefs or motives.

I'm also convinced there are many people both believers and non-believers who appear to "accept" it in the states or are quietly refraining from opposition. But we'll see what happens when the perverted reality hits everyone in the face through all types of media and personal encounters. There will always be those who will not appreciate being bullied into being "PC" while having sodomy being thrown in their face.
I get that the qualifier "ALL" would be offensive (and untrue) but I didn't need to use any qualifier. I said "nothing shows Christian love like ....." and that statement remains true. It isn't a very good witness to faith to act violently.

As far as whether or not the people in France are what you would call "real" Christians, how the heck would I know? Perhaps they assent to all the "right" things but it doesn't translate into their behavior; I have no idea. They call themselves Christians and therefore I will accept that title for them. The same for the Westboro nuts. Their actions are done supposedly because of their faith. In France, at least SOME - there is your qualifier - have cited their Catholicism as their reason for violence.... in the news). If someone who is a Muslim bombs a building and claims religious motivation, other Muslims can rightfully claim that this doesn't represent the true Islam. Fair enough. However, it will still remain a crime done in the name of that faith. If the protesters in France act violently because they say marriage equality violates their Christianity, Christians can claim that true Christians should not act this way (true) but the crimes are still being perpetuated in the name of that faith. Whether or not they qualify for "real Christian" status is irrelevant.



As far as homophobic hatred not being confined within one religion or even solely within religion itself, I agree with you.


Finally, I'm not going to hijack back to Hell. You don't know what you are talking about. Even within the Christian tradition, there are a variety of beliefs about Hell and what it exactly is or isn't. THIS thread is about celebrating the spread of marriage equality and bemoaning the fact that people would threaten violence in the name of Christianity. YOU should be agreeing with me...... for even though you are against gay marriage, I assume that you would in no way support violence being perpetrated in the name of the faith you cherish. You'll call me out about Hell and assign motives to me when you don't know diddly, but you won't say anti-homosexual violence is wrong in France? smh You can still hold fast to all your beliefs and say that violence does not represent the love Jesus called people to show.

Great good is done in the name of Christianity - hospitals founded, charities run, acts of personal sacrifice, etc. etc. But when violence is perpetrated, it should be vehemently denounced.
 
Last edited:
#13
OMG - christians building hospitals? LOL - This has nothing to do with you B, I just hear people make that statement or the like and it's a trigger. Never fails - 'But, but look at all the good we do." Just as many christians have bombed hospitals, and the muslim brotherhood built hospitals and bombed them, and part of their creed is to teach literacy and help the poor. And the Byzantines built great buildings too. It's just a weak point and wreaks of apology - not that that's the point you were making - I understand that. It's just good deeds are cited as a way to prove the validity of the belief, as if humans don't already have innate empathy from the start.

If two consenting adults want to participate in behavior that is between themselves and nothing else, I think the original document is pretty clear about that. There are heterosexual couples who like to dress up in leathers and chains and do the bondage/master-slave thing, and some go that next step and cut on each other. If that's their thing and it's between them, hey, that's their thing.

But to inject morals that have a religious foundation into law? I see only parity b/w what religious groups in the US are attempting to do in that regard and Sharia law. I think it is something to be celebrated when people en mass agree that discrimination is wrong.
 
Last edited:
#14
OMG - christians building hospitals? LOL - This has nothing to do with you B, I just hear people make that statement or the like and it's a trigger. Never fails - 'But, but look at all the good we do." Just as many christians have bombed hospitals, and the muslim brotherhood built hospitals and bombed them, and part of their creed is to teach literacy and help the poor. And the Byzantines built great buildings too. It's just a weak point and wreaks of apology - not that that's the point you were making - I understand that. It's just good deeds are cited as a way to prove the validity of the belief, as if humans don't already have innate empathy from the start.

If two consenting adults want to participate in behavior that is between themselves and nothing else, I think the original document is pretty clear about that. There are heterosexual couples who like to dress up in leathers and chains and do the bondage/master-slave thing, and some go that next step and cut on each other. If that's their thing and it's between them, hey, that's their thing.

But to inject morals that have a religious foundation into law? I see only parity b/w what religious groups in the US are attempting to do in that regard and Sharia law. I think it is something to be celebrated when people en mass agree that discrimination is wrong.

I get that certain comments can trigger reactions, Skeeter. I understand because I have my own triggers, things that make my head explode.

Perhaps my examples were weak. I was merely trying to show that Christians have contributed good things to society. That is undeniable. But Christians have also done great harm, as well, past and present. It really is important to keep a nuanced perspective and not have blinders on in either the pro or con direction.
And I'm not talking about you when I say this. Just people in general.

Back to marriage equality....

As long as the government is in the marriage business, providing benefits according to marital status, the fight for marriage equality will continue.

Here are just a few examples of federal benefits

"• Husbands or wives who survive their spouse are eligible for Social Security benefits, but that is not true of surviving partners of a same-sex relationship.

• U.S. citizens who marry someone from another country may petition for their partner to immigrate, but that is not true of U.S. citizens who enter into a civil union with someone from another country.

• A husband or wife who inherits property from a deceased spouse does not have to pay estate taxes on the property, but that is not true of the surviving partner in a civil union.

• Heterosexual couples who want to get married may do so in any state, and their marriage will be recognized throughout the country. But civil unions are not available in every state and the legal rights attached to such unions are not recognized throughout the country. "

Finally, debate over this issue is to be expected. Disagreement is a given. Churches can teach what they want, refuse to perform gay marriage if they want, think being gay is a sin if they want . ( I do not think it is a sin but that is not really pertinent to this conversation )

But religious proscriptions cannot be written into law on the basis of religion alone.

Neither the SCOTUS nor state lawmakers are beholden to take particular religious beliefs into consideration. Against gay marriage? Fine, but one should be prepared to argue using something other than "the Bible says ."
 
Last edited:

lucas mccain

Triple Platinum
#16
I get that the qualifier "ALL" would be offensive (and untrue) but I didn't need to use any qualifier. I said "nothing shows Christian love like ....." and that statement remains true. It isn't a very good witness to faith to act violently.
Which is your way of implying that Christians were acting out in a violent manner. It would be nice if you show how you came to that conclusion, otherwise it sounds as if you are merely assigning blame disingenuously.

As far as whether or not the people in France are what you would call "real" Christians, how the heck would I know? Perhaps they assent to all the "right" things but it doesn't translate into their behavior; I have no idea. They call themselves Christians and therefore I will accept that title for them. The same for the Westboro nuts. Their actions are done supposedly because of their faith. In France, at least SOME - there is your qualifier - have cited their Catholicism as their reason for violence.... in the news). If someone who is a Muslim bombs a building and claims religious motivation, other Muslims can rightfully claim that this doesn't represent the true Islam. Fair enough. However, it will still remain a crime done in the name of that faith. If the protesters in France act violently because they say marriage equality violates their Christianity, Christians can claim that true Christians should not act this way (true) but the crimes are still being perpetuated in the name of that faith. Whether or not they qualify for "real Christian" status is irrelevant.
Of course it is relevant. Not only is it relevant but it is imperative that you discern who the people are that act against Christ teachings. Otherwise, you are no different than the Westboro Baptist Church.



Finally, I'm not going to hijack back to Hell. You don't know what you are talking about. Even within the Christian tradition, there are a variety of beliefs about Hell and what it exactly is or isn't. THIS thread is about celebrating the spread of marriage equality and bemoaning the fact that people would threaten violence in the name of Christianity. YOU should be agreeing with me...... for even though you are against gay marriage, I assume that you would in no way support violence being perpetrated in the name of the faith you cherish. You'll call me out about Hell and assign motives to me when you don't know diddly, but you won't say anti-homosexual violence is wrong in France? smh You can still hold fast to all your beliefs and say that violence does not represent the love Jesus called people to show.

Great good is done in the name of Christianity - hospitals founded, charities run, acts of personal sacrifice, etc. etc. But when violence is perpetrated, it should be vehemently denounced.
Those other "Christian traditions" that dismiss the notion of hell are simply wrong. They have been deceived. The Bible is quite clear.

As far as celebrating the spread of homosexual marriage... that is not going to happen. It is a travesty. At the same time I abhor violence against homosexuals and when (if) this country sanctions homosexual marriage, I will respect the laws. However, I will still voice how it is a sin against God and that unrepented sin cannot go unpunished.

This whole labeling religions and people is man made anyhow. The bottom line of it all is there are only two types of people... those who love God and those who don't. For those who love God their mission is to make those who don't, aware of God's love for them through His Son. This does not include ignoring how all sin is offensive to God. Anyone who acts out in violence against homosexuals is also sinning against God - and it doesn't matter what they call themselves. Unless they both repent - they will stand guilty.

So for this reason, you'll excuse me if I'm not "celebrating" with France while they spit in the face of God.
 
Last edited:
#18
I get that certain comments can trigger reactions, Skeeter. I understand because I have my own triggers, things that make my head explode.

Perhaps my examples were weak. I was merely trying to show that Christians have contributed good things to society. That is undeniable. But Christians have also done great harm, as well, past and present. It really is important to keep a nuanced perspective and not have blinders on in either the pro or con direction.
And I'm not talking about you when I say this. Just people in general.

"
No worries - had nothing to do with me thinking your examples were weak nor anything. I only said my statements weren't directed at yours specifically, that yours had only prompted some of the thoughts in my response. That's all :)
 

binz

Platinum Member
#19
This trend will continue. In the not too distant future, all the bigots will have died off.

Amazing to think how long this brand of bigotry persisted. We can thank religion for that.
 
#20
This trend will continue. In the not too distant future, all the bigots will have died off.

Amazing to think how long this brand of bigotry persisted. We can thank religion for that.

If labeling people and refusing to give them a fair hearing makes someone a bigot, your statement now make you an anti-religous bigot, which i believe is actually the next form that popular bigotry will take. Congrats Binz, you're ahead of the curve!